Tao

[Lundan]

[quote]

[J R Auk]

Taoismen säger väl vad vetenskapen säger. Observera först och lägg inte värderingar i resultaten av det.
Det finns ingen genväg till din viljas fullbordning. Önskningar är bara önskningar. Gå den väg dit allt annat går. Något annat är inte möjligt. Vi kan inte ändra sakers beskaffenhet bara förhålla oss annorlunda till dem.

Hurra för taoismen men praktisera den som zenbuddisten

[Lundan]

[quote]

[Lundan]

[quote]

[SimonW]

Jag vet nästan ingenting om Taoismen, jag tycker det är tråkigt att man i den filosofiska litteraturen nästan helt (till 99%) utelämnar andra traditioner än den europeiska även om det finns traditioner av samma teorietiska karaktär.

Jag praktiserar både Zen och Thaichi så om jag viste mer om Taoismen skulle jag säkert tycka om den.

[Kiifen]

Men läs Lao Tzu då...

[PopJimmy]

Chan (Kinesiska namnet för den som i japan kom att kallas Zen) anses uppstått i samband med att munken Bodhidharma emigrerade från Indien till Kina och är en sammanslagning av Buddhism och Taoism. Bodhidharma anses även historiskt att vara grundaren av Kung Fu vid Shaolintemplet. Han tyckte att munkarna var i dåligt fysiskt skick och vill därför att de skulle komplettera deras mentala träning med fysisk träning.

Här är en bra svensk övsättning av Tao te ching http://web.telia.com/~u36115637/taoteching.htm

[sufi]

......

Another manifestation of the notion that a god who dwells in the sky never exists is the ancient tradition of Taoism from many centuries ago in China. The entire existence is an inseparable wholeness in point of truth, despite its appearance in a state of multiplicity as seen from the mechanism known as eye. The consciousness is an eye of that wholeness that observes itself from itself! The conscious mind can recognize its essence at the extent that it perceives its true nature and that recognition will eventually end up in “NOTHINGNESS”! The end result is the experience of “nothingness” within “NOTHINGNESS”!

Buddha, on the other hand, proposed mankind to reach “NIRVANA” as a final destination. For those who assumed themselves as a sack of flesh and bones and accepted that they would eventually disappear into the soil by the event of death, he explained that they are in fact a conscious being and their lives would still continue even after their bodies are turned to soil, and that they are the “ones” created from the “One” and that they are not just physical bodies but rather sacred souls, so as they could purify their souls, they would be able to attain Nirvana and live within that soul of oneness as sacred souls.

.......

The concept of Jewish mysticism known as Cabbala, which constitutes the intellectual profundity of the understanding of “RELIGION” taught by Hadhrat Moses, however, has made it quite clear to all of its followers, beyond the understanding of tribalism and formalism in the outer world, that the whole existence is singular and the spirit of the whole mankind originate from one single spirit.

In point of fact, what Jesus Christ articulated (put into words), characterized and lived was nothing other than the realization of this singularity and hence rejecting a god out there owing to this understanding! The definition which suggested that “My father is the Lord”, did not in fact refer to a physical god-son relation; it was rather pointing to the perception of individual spirits formed under a single SPIRIT mentioned in Cabbala teaching. The purpose in turning people toward the sky did in fact symbolize the act of living and experiencing the reality of the creative spiritual stations within the origins of your spirit’s consciousness as it is found in the profound dimensions of consciousness. The meaning of the oral tradition Hadhrat Jesus had addressed “you are thinking like a human being, not like the Lord the Creator” was simply meant to make you grasp the fact that “you should evaluate the events in the light of universal realities rather than getting yourself stuck into the laws of thought pertaining to human judgments and the conditionings”. The mentality of being “chosen people” which lies at the origin of Judaism did in fact represent those who would have high standards in understanding to accept, experience and practice the Cabbala teachings, rather than those who were all born from a Jew family –the development of this notion has in fact formed the basis of Masonry.

Even though all the beliefs we have discussed to that point have some starting grounds and logical explanations, the greatest deficiency and insufficiency in them is their lack of information about matters relating to the practices to be performed in this world as regards the life beyond death. None of them has the ability to talk about on anything concerning the structure of the human being, the function of the brain and what needs to be done in order to evaluate the brain in the best possible manner so that the human being could eventually understand the type of actions needed for the environment in the life beyond death. Nobody has been able to suggest anything on issues concerning the stages of eternal life after death. Needless to say, it is the most important for a human being to be fully aware of what he has to perform in this world so that he could be content in the life after death.

As the last Nabi explained that the end of the world known as doomsday would happen when the Sun will expand to envelop the Earth and swallow it eventually, on the other hand, in the holy Koran, a galactic doomsday far beyond the end of the world has been referred in a metaphorical way also some 1400 years ago through the illustrations of stars beginning to fall down! Today we know the fact that all the stars in the Milky Way galaxy will soon be knocked off their orbits after some time and when viewed from the earth they would appear as if falling down. This incident would take place through the collusion of Milky Way with the Andromeda galaxy that is traveling towards us at present.

In point of fact, the most fundamental issue that needs to be comprehended is the fact about what and how the human beings, who will survive forever through the experiences of a number of transformations (deaths), will be able to obtain only in this world, of which all have been explained only by the last Nabi Mohammed Mustafa (peace and blessings be upon him) through the proclamation of the “RELIGION”, the only one at the sight of Allah, which is given the name “ISLAM”.

.....

As a matter of fact, all the religious beliefs that we have listed above is insufficient and inadequate in the sense that they are not designed for the future use of the mankind compared to the teachings of “RELIGION” named as Islam. None of those beliefs give any explanation or have any emphasis regarding the “SunnatAllah” as explained in the understanding of “RELIGION” known as “ISLAM”. For this reason, the teachings including the crucial propositions and practices considered necessary for the future of mankind that the last Nabi set forth based on “SunnatAllah” never ever exist in any beliefs.

SO HERE WE ARE TO THE MOST IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE AND THE POINT OF SEPARATION WITH THE PREVIOUS ONES!

.........

AHMED HULUSI
May 3, 2006
North Carolina, USA

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För hela artikeln http://ahmedbaki.com/english/articles/taoism.htm

[PopJimmy]

Jag gillade en grej i slutet:

As a matter of fact, all the religious beliefs that we have listed above is insufficient and inadequate in the sense that they are not designed for the future use of the mankind compared to the teachings of “RELIGION” named as Islam.

Kul att han använder orden "matter of fact", alltså att det skulle röra sig om ett "fakta". Förklarar han någonstans vart han fick detta "fakta" från?

[sufi]

Jag gillade en grej i slutet:

As a matter of fact, all the religious beliefs that we have listed above is insufficient and inadequate in the sense that they are not designed for the future use of the mankind compared to the teachings of “RELIGION” named as Islam.

Kul att han använder orden "matter of fact", alltså att det skulle röra sig om ett "fakta". Förklarar han någonstans vart han fick detta "fakta" från?

Det han har skrivit bygger pa fakta. Han berattar om "yaqeen" och "iqaan" och hur man kan uppna detta. Det finns folk som har upplevt detta och har skrivit böcker om samma system i flera hundra ar.

Muslims do not believe in a god out there, in a place far away from them, somewhere high above in skies or in space; but they believe in the qualities, which are explained through the holy Koran, of the one referred by the name “ALLAH” by the most eminent Rasul. They try to attain certainty (yaqeen) in faith and strive to achieve the certitude (iqaan) in this matter! In addition to the certainty which they have already obtained, they would also seek to realize and understand the SunnatAllah and live to fulfill its effect as due.

SO HERE WE ARE TO THE MOST IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE AND THE POINT OF SEPARATION WITH THE PREVIOUS ONES!

Yes, we have finally come to figure out the most important point of difference and separation of Mohammad Mustafa (peace be upon him) who is the last Nabi and the Rasul of Allah from others that came before him.

Those who wish to become aware of the intellectual fundamentals of the understanding of “RELIGION” presented under the name Islam will sooner or later enter the field of Sufism, either knowingly or unknowingly. Such a journey of questioning and realizing what lies beyond is the first stage towards knowing and understanding the being named as “ALLAH”.

During this journey, which is named as “fanafillah” (annihilation) in Sufi terminology, the person will realize that in the sight of the being named as Allah, his existence as well as the whole universe consist of nothing and are created of mere nothingness, and that the only true absolute being that exists is the being referred to as “ALLAH”. This awareness will eventually lead the person to the realization of his nonexistence and nothingness. This is the point where the perception as well as comprehension disappears completely!

However, in the state of “sayrul afaaq” (objective contemplation – journey towards horizons) experienced on the base of “wahdat” (unity) understanding, it is realized in a step by step fashion that the entire existence is a whole single being undivided into parts, that is known as singularity (wahidiyyat). This realization will finally end up in “ahadiyyat” (oneness) or in other words “NOTHINGNESS” if the person’s capacity will allow. The end result is the manifestation of living in absolute darkness, which in Sufi terminology is referred to as the state of experiencing "the unknown" (ama) from the perspective of the consciousness. Because of the quality of Oneness, in other words the attribute of "NOTHINGNESS" of the One that is named as "ALLAH", the experience of such a spiritual station can not be talked about in which not even the power to contemplate is up for discussion!

After this, those who have been granted with the perfection of “Bakabillah” (Permanence in Allah); for them the annihilation in the eternal consciousness begins.

This is the life that is experienced in the “SunnatAllah”!

The whole existence, whether perceived or not, has been created from the qualities and attributes present in His divine knowledge, as conscious beings. The One created every single being, whether perceivable by us or not, as conscious forms in His consciousness (ilim) using his own attributes from “nothingness” and He is in a state of new manifestation every moment such that the entirety of His creations would manifest their servitude to Allah until eternity.

It is for this specific reason that countless universes within universes had been created and each of these universes possess a particular structure as well as an order that is associated with their existence and provided that the attributes and qualities serving to the meaning of their existence remains intact with them, they will continue to exist all the time!

According to the concept of “SunnatAllah”, the consciousness that is manifested as a human being in this world is responsible to question himself regarding the actions necessary to fully understand the true meaning of the entire existence as well as of his own. Furthermore, he needs to comprehend how and in what way he could carry on with his life soon after his death and question himself about what he needs to do for his tomorrow in order that he could be prepared for a more positive and beneficial future.

There is no doubt that the most perfect answer to this issue came from the messenger of Allah, the final prophet Muhammad Mustafa.

The Mohammedan teaching indicated with the term Wahy (Revelation) is not connected with the concept of a separate god. Therefore, it begins with “LA ILAHA = THERE IS NO GOD (in other words, the concept of Divinity)” and continues with “illa ALLAH” (only Allah).

It says, the concept of divinity does not exist at all, there exists only one excellence and that is the being named as “ALLAH”. For this reason, there is no idolization of a separate God. There are only practices to be carried out under the name “SunnatAllah”

Yes, the knowledge of “SunnatAllah” which came for the purpose of providing us with extra awareness in addition to other discoveries made in the past is the most important thing here after realizing what the One denoted by the name “ALLAH” is

What will transform a human’s life and future into paradise or make him live in hell, depends very much upon that individual’s interpretation of the concept of “SunnatAllah”. Those who have been created with the ability to grasp this concept will certainly make use of the reality of “SunnatAllah” as it should be and therefore their future becomes even more prosperous, their environment becomes the place of peace and happiness that is described by the name paradise. On the other hand, those who are not capable of evaluating the meaning of “SunnatAllah” in its true sense will be spending their whole time in such environments where they will be subject to various forms of burning, from the very first day of their life.

In other words, the most significant difference between all the other religions and the only religion known under the name “ISLAM” is that soon after comprehending “Allah”, whether an individual realizes, understands and lives a life according to the system of “SunnatAllah” or not.

Because, by recognizing the One that is named as “ALLAH”, your existence and individual consciousness would never ever disappears sugar dissolves in water.

Everyone, whether they attain the stage of “NOTHINGNESS” mentioned in Taoism, or they reach the spiritual perfection of Nirvana, or they discover Jehovah, or they realize that it is not possible to grasp the oneness of the being indicated as “Allah” because in reality this is the spiritual station of the nothingness experienced within one’s own essence, they all are still in a position forever to depart from this world as a soul with a personality through the transformation called “death” no matter where they go after this transformation takes place. For this reason, no matter how much an individual realizes his truth, he has to live his life in perfect harmony with the system and the principles outlined by the final prophet. This is the same as understanding the concept of “SunnatAllah” and living a life according to it.

Due to the nature of the system of creation, everyone will live the consequences of their own actions (i.e. things that they did with their hands) and since they are already in this state, they need to understand the meaning of what the final prophet Muhammad Mustafa have tried to explain and this is the most important truth of life that everyone should realize.

Now we come to the answer of the question in the beginning of our discussion. The answer of the question why most of the Muslim communities on this planet are among the undeveloped communities.

Some communities did not believe in the existence of god and they did not expect anything either from a god far away. Since they had no other alternative but to put their faculties within their essence to use, they made considerable progress in this way.

Other communities however, being under the influence of the school of thought originating from their culture tried to develop themselves following the mentality that “The power lies within your existence, so do not expect anything from outside but instead try to learn how to utilize the faculties you already have”.

“Indeed, you could achieve many things by the creative power of the attributes and the names bestowed on you, so the point here is to discover these potentials within yourself.” During the times when this Sufi teaching was in effect, Muslim communities were the pioneers of the world in many fields.

It is most unfortunate that, as time passed, the “RELIGION” was considered as an activity that is performed for the purpose of satisfying the desire and hence obtaining the approval of the One above. So the act of worshipping is understood in this fashion and when this understanding spread, the entire phenomenon has been diverted from its correct course to the mentality of “expecting everything from the one high above”. This in return produced a period of regression for some Muslim communities.

Unless you discover the qualities and the attributes of the Creator within your essence and gain insight into constructing your future based on these potentials, everything else will be expected from the ‘One’ high above; therefore it is quite inevitable that the societies where this understanding is common will always remain behind.

AHMED HULUSI
May 3, 2006
Raleigh, NC

[PopJimmy]

Det han har skrivit bygger pa fakta. Han berattar om "yaqeen" och "iqaan" och hur man kan uppna detta. Det finns folk som har upplevt detta och har skrivit böcker om samma system i flera hundra ar.

Jag läste igenom texten men jag uppfattade inget som stödde faktat om:

As a matter of fact, all the religious beliefs that we have listed above is insufficient and inadequate in the sense that they are not designed for the future use of the mankind compared to the teachings of “RELIGION” named as Islam.

Alltså många människor som utövar "religioner" kommer till olika former av insikter. Jag tror personligen att dessa insikter överskrider gränserna för de olika traditionerna. Det som dock separerar de olika traditionerna i olika utsträckning är hur dessa insikter tolkas och sätts i sammanhang. Dock finns det undantag av vad jag har hört: Vissa typer av upplevelser (i regel sådanna som handlar om visioner, som även brukar vara sammanknutna med just theta vågor och drömsömn) som är hårt sammanknutna med hur ens konceptuella/symbol värld tolkar dem. Men eftersom olika människor rapporterar olika typer av tolkningar för dessa upplevelser kan jag tyvärr inte favorisera en enskild tolkning. När jag haft en egen upplevelse av detta slag kan återkomma.

Det han har skrivit bygger pa fakta. Han berattar om "yaqeen" och "iqaan" och hur man kan uppna detta. Det finns folk som har upplevt detta och har skrivit böcker om samma system i flera hundra ar.

Alltså jag kan hålla med om att människor faktiskt har insikter, men det är inte samma sak som att insikterna är i formen av "rationell fakta" som dessutom skulle vara insikter om att den givna religionen är överlägsen andra religioner. De insikterna man får tycks för mig i första hand vara vad jag kallar för "intuitioner" och dessa säger ingenting om att den givna religionen pånågotsätt är överlägsen. Naturligtvis finns det många dårar som efter dessa typer av upplevelser tolkar det som att sin egna religon är den enda "sanna" eller "tillräckliga" religionen. Men detta tycks för mig vara dåraktigt beteende som handlar om hur människan ifråga väljer att förhålla sig till upplevelsen, inte om upplevelsen i sig själv.

[sufi]

Alltså jag kan hålla med om att människor faktiskt har insikter, men det är inte samma sak som att insikterna är i formen av "rationell fakta" som dessutom skulle vara insikter om att den givna religionen är överlägsen andra religioner. De insikterna man får tycks för mig i första hand vara vad jag kallar för "intuitioner" och dessa säger ingenting om att den givna religionen pånågotsätt är överlägsen. Naturligtvis finns det många dårar som efter dessa typer av upplevelser tolkar det som att sin egna religon är den enda "sanna" eller "tillräckliga" religionen. Men detta tycks för mig vara dåraktigt beteende som handlar om hur människan ifråga väljer att förhålla sig till upplevelsen, inte om upplevelsen i sig själv.

Sedan finns det andra som anvander ett par procent av sin hjarnkapasitet och tycker att deras tro ar "tillracklig" och fattar inte att det faktist kan finnas personer som har utvecklat sin hjarnkapasitet, ar kapabel till mer och vet rationell fakta om det har systemet. Naturligtvis finns det vissa bland de har typerna som kan lasa ett par sidor fakta och inte hitta en mening som de kan argumentera mot och da valjer att anfalla dessa personer och kallar de för darar.

[stradde]

Borde inte Tao föras under religion?

[Kiifen]

Taoism skulle kunna diskuteras inom nästan alla filosofiska grenar inklusive de religiösa och andliga. Jag tycker att det är den vackraste filsofi/religion som producerats. Den är enkel och elegant och har ett oerhört djup.

[FIG]

Vad tycker ni om Taoismen?, kan det anses som den absoluta sanningen?

Att verkligheten följer  Tao/Vägen, och Tao/Vägen genomsyrar allt på samma gång, Tao gör som sådanheten är te.x. just att elektroner snurrar åt just ett visst håll och när man släpper en sten så far den rakt ner på marken och allting, som gör som sådanheten gör. allt som gör som de gör, OSV,

och det naturliga är att följa tao ,, som naturen å verkligheten gör ,verkar bara människan som har blivit onaturlig och kämpar" emot "Tao/Vägen".

Nu har jag läst lite om Taoismen

"kan det anses som den absoluta sanningen? " Nej det tycker jag inte, det finns ingen "absoluta sanningen" Men det är ett braförsk att komma nära det,

Det är väkligen tislös tycker jag :)

en bra sida som jag hittade är
http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/taoteching.html