Behöver hjälp med Buddhistiska perspektiv på min förvirring

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PopJimmy
Inlägg: 2569
Blev medlem: 23 nov 2004 07:07

Behöver hjälp med Buddhistiska perspektiv på min förvirring

Inläggav PopJimmy » 20 mar 2006 12:47

Jag går och drar upp persinennerna och ser till min förvåning att det snöar, jag blir blixtsnabbt jätteledsen (eftersom senast igår sken solen och det verkade som snön äntligen skulle försvinna. Brukar aldrig bry mig om värdret annars) en halv sekund senare reflekterar jag över mitt beteende och känner mig som en jättebäbis. Varför kan jag inte njuta av vyn, det var trots allt ganska mysigt. Jag behöver inte längre rationella ursäkter för att bryta ihop. Jag svämmar över av irrationella impulser.

Jag hörde en speciell ackordföljd i en låt. Blev sentimental. Och bröt ihop på två sekunder.


Jag konsulterar min Buddhistlitteratur: Cutting throught spiritual materialism, Chögyam Trungpa.
Then there is a sudden losing of faith and the monkey begins to doubt himself and his world, begins to react violently. All this is a terrible nightmare. He realizes that such a nightmare could not be true and he begins to hate himself for creating all this horror. This is the dream of Hell Realm, the last of the Six Realms.
Throughout the entire development of the Six Realm the monkey has experienced discursive thoughts, ideas, fantasies, and whole thought patterns. Up to the level of the Fifth Skandha his process pf psychological evoluion has been very regular and predictable. From the First Skandha each successive development arose in a systematic pattern, like an overlay of tiles on a roof. But now the monkey's state of mind becomes very distorted and disturbed, as suddenly this mental jigsaw puzzle erupts and his thought patterns become irregular and unpredictable. This seems to be our of mind as we come to the teachings and the practice of meditation. This is the place from which we must start our practice. I think that is is very important to discuss the basis of the path-ego, our confusion-before we speak of liberation, that would be dangerous. This is why we begin by considering the development of ego.

Är det någon på forumet som är insatt i de djupare buddhistiska synsätten om de sex världarna (psykologiska tillstånden) i samsara? Är det någon förutom jag som är inne på Buddhism? Jag tycker att Lupia ger signaler av det, men annars verkar det ganska tomt. Kanske borde söka mig vidare till ett Buddhismforum?

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PopJimmy
Inlägg: 2569
Blev medlem: 23 nov 2004 07:07

Inläggav PopJimmy » 20 mar 2006 13:08

Jag hittade ett utdrag:
A key Buddhist teaching: that differing states of mind and emotions color our view of the world and shape human experience. This philosophy is reflected in the piece's formal structure (see diagram below).

The Six Realms is structured as follows:

1. The Sorrow of the World (introduction)
2. The Hell Realm (aggression: acute, self-perpetuating anger at the world and ourselves)
3. The Hungry Ghost Realm (passion: the need to possess or continually consume; we are never satisfied because we can never get enough)
4. The Animal Realm (ignorance: an obsessive need to control or to find security)
5. The Human Realm (passion: the desire for something better, and a lessening of self-absorption, allows for the possibility of our becoming dignified humans who long for liberation from these six realms of existence. It is only from this realm that we are able to move on to achieve Enlightenment: the right way to view, and interact with, the world.)
6. The God Realm (ignorance: blissful self-absorption of our godlike powers, until doubt sets in and shatters our confidence) and The Jealous God Realm (aggression: extreme paranoia and competitive drive; we never trust anyone or their motives)

Put simply, Buddhists believe that humans cycle back and forth, endlessly, through these six states, experiencing the concomitant afflictions that attach themselves to each level. Moving from realm to realm until we finally are able to liberate ourselves from this misery-inducing cycle. By simply letting go of the neurotic attachments in our lives, we become fully aware of our self-destructive behavioral and thought patterns, thereby achieving spiritual fulfillment as the realms collapse upon themselves.



Det känns som jag tidigare var i den femte världen, till jag hade min mystiska upplevelse vilket förde mig till sex, jag var gud själv. När jag sedan mötte motstånd började jag tvivla. Sedan dess har jag varit förkrossad av sorg (ett) och är nu på steg två, arg och förvirrad.

(bara för att jag postar detta innebär det inte att tror på det själv, men det är det närmasta jag för närvarande hittat till någon slags förklaring över mitt inkonsistenta beteende)

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PopJimmy
Inlägg: 2569
Blev medlem: 23 nov 2004 07:07

Inläggav PopJimmy » 20 mar 2006 13:30

The Six Realms

If ego decides it likes the situation, it begins to churn up all sorts of ways to possess it. A craving to consume the situation arises and we long to satisfy that craving. Once we do, a ghost of that craving carries over and we look around for something else to consume. We get into the habitual pattern of becoming consumer oriented. Perhaps we order a piece of software for our computer. We play with it for awhile, until the novelty wears out, and then we look around for the next piece of software that has the magic glow of not being possessed yet. Soon we haven't even got the shrink wrap off the current package when we start looking for the next one. Owning the software and using it doesn't seem to be as important as wanting it, looking forward to its arrival. This is known as the hungry ghost realm where we have made an occupation out of craving. We can never find satisfaction, it is like drinking salt water to quench our thirst.

Another realm is the animal realm, or having the mind like that of an animal. Here we find security by making certain that everything is totally predictable. We only buy blue chip stock, never take a chance and never look at new possibilities. The thought of new possibilities frightens us and we look with scorn at anyone who suggests anything innovative. This realm is characterised by ignorance. We put on blinders and only look straight ahead, never to the right or left.

The hell realm is characterised by acute aggression. We build a wall of anger between ourselves and our experience. Everything irritates us, even the most innocuous, and innocent statement drives us mad with anger. The heat of our anger is reflected back on us and sends us into a frenzy to escape from our torture, which in turn causes us to fight even harder and get even angrier. The whole thing builds on itself until we don't even know if we're fighting with someone else or ourselves. We are so busy fighting that we can't find an alternative to fighting; the possibility of alternative never even occurs to us.

These are the three lower realms. One of the three higher realms is called the jealous god realm. This pattern of existence is characterised by acute paranoia. We are always concerned with "making it". Everything is seen from a competitive point of view. We are always trying to score points, and trying to prevent others from scoring on us. If someone achieves something special we become determined to out do them. We never trust anyone; we "know" they're trying to slip one past us. If someone tries to help us, we try to figure out their angle. If someone doesn't try to help us, they are being uncooperative, and we make a note to ourselves that we will get even later. "Don't get mad, get even," that's our motto.

At some point we might hear about spirituality. We might hear about the possibility of meditation techniques, imported from some eastern religion, or mystical western one, that will make our minds peaceful and absorb us into a universal harmony. We begin to meditate and perform certain rituals and we find ourselves absorbed into infinite space and blissful states of existence. Everything sparkles with love and light; we become godlike beings. We become proud of our godlike powers of meditative absorption. We might even dwell in the realm of infinite space where thoughts seldom arise to bother us. We ignore everything that doesn't confirm our godhood. We have manufactured the god realm, the highest of the six realms of existence. The problem is, that we have manufactured it. We begin to relax and no longer feel the need to maintain our exalted state. Eventually a small sliver of doubt occurs. Have we really made it? At first we are able to smooth over the question, but eventually the doubt begins to occur more and more frequently and soon we begin to struggle to regain our supreme confidence. As soon as we begin to struggle, we fall back into the lower realms and begin the whole process over and over; from god realm to jealous god realm to animal realm to hungry ghost realm to hell realm. At some point we begin to wonder if there isn't some sort of alternative to our habitual way of dealing with the world. This is the human realm.

The human realm is the only one in which liberation from the six states of existence is possible. The human realm is characterised by doubt and inquisitiveness and the longing for something better. We are not as absorbed by the all consuming preoccupations of the other states of being. We begin to wonder whether it is possible to relate to the world as simple, dignified human beings.

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PopJimmy
Inlägg: 2569
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Inläggav PopJimmy » 20 mar 2006 13:51

In Buddhism, it is taught that there are various realms, spheres or dimensions of existence. There are thirty-one planes of existence listed, but for our purposes, we are going to utilize a simpler scheme which enumerates six realms of existence. In general, the six realms may be divided into two groups, one of which is relatively fortunate and the other relatively miserable. The first group includes three of the six realms and they are the realm of the gods, the realm of the demigods and the realm of human beings. Rebirth in these fortunate realms is the result of wholesome karma. The second group includes the three realms that are considered relatively miserable. They are sometimes called the realms of woe, and they are the realm of animals, the realm of hungry ghosts and the realm of hell beings. Rebirth in these states of woe is the result of unwholesome karma.

Let us look at each of these realms individually and starting from the realm at the bottom, let us look at the realm of the hell beings (Niraya). There are various hells in Buddhism, and they are principally eight hot hells and eight cold hells. In the hells, beings suffer incalculable and inexpressible pain. It is said that the suffering experienced as a result of being pierced by three hundred spears in a single day in this life is only a minute fraction of the suffering experienced in hell. The cause of rebirth in hell is continuous, habitual violent actions - habitual killing, cruelty and so forth, actions that are borne of ill-will. Beings born in the hells suffer the pain of hell until their unwholesome karma is exhausted. This is important because we must note that in Buddhism no one suffers eternal damnation. When their unwholesome karma is exhausted, beings in hell are reborn in a more fortunate realm of existence.

The next realm is the realm of the hungry ghosts (Pretas). Beings in this realm suffer chiefly from hunger and thirst, and from heat and cold. They are completely bereft of the objects of their desire. It is said that when the hungry ghosts perceive a mountain of rice or a river of fresh water, and rush towards that vision, they find the mountain of rice is only a heap of pebbles, and the river of fresh water only a ribbon of blue slate. Similarly, it is said that in the summer even the moon is hot, while in the winter even the sun is cold for them. The foremost cause of rebirth as a hungry ghost is avarice and miserliness borne of greed. As with the hells, the beings in this realm are not condemned to eternal existence in the form of hungry ghosts, for when their unwholesome karma is exhausted, they will be reborn in a higher realm.

In the next realm which is the realm of animals (Tiryak), the living beings suffer from a variety of unhappy circumstances. They suffer from the fear and pain that is the result of constantly killing and eating one another. They suffer from the depredations of man who kills them for food or for their hides, horns or teeth. Even if they are not killed, domestic animals are forced to work for man and are driven on by hooks and whips. All these are a source of suffering. The principal cause of rebirth as an animal is ignorance. In other words, the blind, heedless pursuit of one’s animal-like desires, the preoccupation with eating, sleeping and sexual desire, and the disregard of developing one’s mind to the practice of virtue and so forth lead one to be reborn as an animal.

Now when I say for instance that habitual killing is the cause of rebirth in the hells, or that greed is the cause of rebirth in the realm of the hungry ghosts, or that ignorance is the cause of rebirth in the realm of animals, it does not mean that a specific hateful, greedy or ignorant action will result in rebirth amongst the appropriate class of beings - the hells, the realms of hungry ghosts or the realm of animals. What it does mean is that there is a relationship between hatred and rebirth in the hells, and between greed and rebirth in the realm of hungry ghosts, and between ignorance and rebirth in the realm of the animals. If unimpeded, if unbalanced by other virtuous actions, such actions if habitual are likely to result in rebirth in these three states of woe.

I am going to skip the realm of human beings for the moment and go on to the realm of demigods (Asuras). The Asuras are more powerful physically and are more intelligent mentally than human beings. Yet they suffer because of jealousy and conflict. Mythologically, it is said that the Asuras and the gods share a celestial tree. While the gods enjoy the fruits of this celestial tree, the Asuras are custodians of the roots of the tree. The Asuras are envious of the gods and constantly attempt to take the fruits of the tree from the gods. As a result of this, they fight with the gods, and are defeated by the gods and suffer greatly as a consequence. Because of this constant jealousy, envy and conflict, existence amongst the Asuras is unhappy and unfortunate. As with the other realms, there is a cause of rebirth amongst the demigods. On the positive side, the cause is generosity. On the negative side, the causes are anger, envy and jealousy.

The sixth realm, the realm of the gods (Devas) is the happiest amongst the six realms. As a result of having done wholesome actions, of having observed the moral precepts and having practised meditation, living beings are reborn amongst the gods where they enjoy sensual pleasure or spiritual pleasure, or tranquillity depending upon the level within the realm of the gods in which they are born. Nonetheless, the realm of the gods is not to be desired because the happiness of the gods is impermanent. No matter how much they may enjoy their existence as a god, when the force of their karma is exhausted, when the merits of their good conduct and the power of their experience in meditation are exhausted, the gods fall from heaven and are reborn in another realm. At this moment, at the moment of their death, it is said that the gods suffer even more mental anguish than the physical pain suffered by beings in the other realms. The negative factor associated with birth in the realm of the gods is pride.

So here, as you can see, we have an affliction or defilement associated with the five realms - hell beings, hungry ghosts, animals, demigods and the gods, and they are ill-will, desire, ignorance, jealousy and pride. Birth in any of these five realms is undesirable. Birth in the three lower realms is undesirable for obvious reasons, because of the intense suffering and because of the total ignorance of the beings who inhabit these realms. Even rebirth in the realms of the demigods and the gods too is undesirable. This is because, although one experiences a certain degree of happiness and power, existence amongst the demigods and gods is impermanent. Besides, because of the distractions and pleasures in these realms, beings there never think of looking for a way out of the cycle of birth and death. This is why it is said that of the six realms, the most fortunate, opportune and favored is the human realm. This is why I have left the human realm to the last.

The human realm (Manushya) is the most favoured of the six realms because as a human being one has the motivation and the opportunity to practise the Dharma and to achieve enlightenment. One has this motivation and opportunity because the conditions conducive to practising the path are present. In the human realm, one experiences both happiness and suffering. The suffering in this realm, though terrible, is not so great as the suffering in the three realms of woe. The pleasure and happiness experienced in the human realm is not so great as the pleasure and happiness experienced in the heavens. As a result, human beings are neither blinded by the intense happiness experienced by the beings in the heavens, nor distracted by the unbearable suffering that beings in the hells experience. Again, unlike the animals, human beings possess sufficient intelligence to recognize the necessity to look for a means to achieve the total end of suffering.

Human birth is difficult to gain from a number of points of view. First of all, it is difficult to gain from the point of view of its cause. Good conduct is the foremost cause of rebirth as a human being, but how rare is truly good conduct. Again, human birth is difficult to gain from the point of view of number, for human beings are only a small fraction of the living beings who inhabit the six realms. Moreover it is not enough simply to be born as a human being because there are countless human beings who do not have the opportunity to practise the Dharma. It is therefore not only necessary to be born as a human being, it is also necessary to have the opportunity to practise the Dharma, to develop one’s qualities of morality, mental development and wisdom.

The Buddha spoke about the rarity and the precious nature of opportune birth amongst human beings. He used a simile to illustrate this point. Suppose the whole world were a vast ocean, and on the surface of this ocean there were a yoke floating about, blown about by the wind, and suppose at the bottom of the ocean there lived a blind tortoise which came to the surface of the ocean once every hundred years. Just as difficult as it would be for that tortoise to place its neck through the opening in that yoke floating about in the ocean, just so difficult is it to attain opportune birth as a human being. Elsewhere, it is said that just as if one were to throw a handful of dried peas against a stone wall, and just as if one of these peas were to stick in a crack in the wall, so to be born as a human being with the opportunity to practise the Dharma is similarly difficult.

It is foolish to waste human existence along with the conducive conditions that we enjoy in free societies, the opportunity that we have to practise the Dharma. It is extremely important that having this opportunity we make use of it. If we fail to practise the Dharma in this life, there is no way of knowing where in the six realms we will be reborn, and when we shall have such a chance again. We must strive to free ourselves from the cycle of rebirth because failing to do so means that we will continue to circle endlessly amongst these six realms of existence. When the karma, wholesome or unwholesome, that causes us to be born in any of the six realms is exhausted, rebirth will occur, and we will find ourselves again in another realm. In fact, it is said that all of us have circled in the these six realms since beginningless time, that if all the skeletons that we have had in our various lives were heaped up, the pile would exceed the height of Mount Sumeru. If all the mothers’ milk that we have drunk throughout our countless existences were collected, the amount would exceed the amount of water in all the oceans. So now that we have the opportunity to practise the Dharma, we must do so without delay.

In recent years, there has been a tendency to interpret the six realms in psychological terms. Some teachers have suggested that the experience of the six realms is available to us in this very life. Undoubtedly, this is true so far as it goes. Those men and women who find themselves in prisons, tortured, killed, and so forth are undoubtedly experiencing a situation similar to that of the hell beings. Similarly, those who are miserly and avaricious experience a state of mind similar to that of the hungry ghosts. And those who are animal-like experience a state of mind similar to that of the animals. Those who are quarrelsome, powerful and jealous experience a state of mind similar to that of the Asuras. Those who are proud, tranquil, serene and exalted experience a state of mind similar to that of the gods. Yet, while it is undoubtedly true that the experience of the six realms is to some extent available to us in this human existence, I think it would be a mistake to assume or to believe that the six realms of existence do not have a reality which is as real as our human experience. The hells, the realm of the hungry ghosts, animals, demigods and gods are as real as our human realm. We will recall that mind is the creator of all mental states. Actions done with a pure mind motivated by generosity, love and so forth result in happy mental states or states of existence like the human realm and the realm of the gods. But actions done with an impure mind affected by greed, ill-will and so forth result in unhappy lives like those of the hungry ghosts and hell beings.

Finally, I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self. There is the continuity of cause and effect, but not permanence. I want to end with this point because we will be considering the example of the seed and the sprout, and the example of the flame in an oil lamp next week when we discuss dependent origination. And with the help of the teaching of dependent origination, we will understand better how dependent origination makes moral responsibility and notself compatible

Deuce Deceptor
Inlägg: 318
Blev medlem: 23 maj 2004 23:12

Inläggav Deuce Deceptor » 20 mar 2006 18:14

Visst är det användbart att tala om de sex världarna som aspekter av upplysning. Du vet säkerligen mer om denna symbolik än jag. Dock...liksom alla symboler eller tankemönster så begränsar det även tänkandet. Inte för att jag menar att du kan vara totalt utan symboler och livsåskådning, bara att det är bra om den är dynamisk. Jo, du verkar ju fallit tillbaka ifrån den gudomliga till den mänskliga...men enligt författaren så är ju detta utmärkt. Praktisera Dharma! Sen kan det va lurigt att veta vad dharma är... Det är ett evigt gissel för mig.

Jag har ett liknande problem för tillfället. Tidigare så kämpade jag verkligen för att släppa taget på ett känslomässigt plan. Inte att sluta agera, men att sluta att bry mig så jävla mycket om min känslomässiga reaktion...att ge upp de där klipporna av luft som jag ständigt bygger...att acceptera dynamiken och inte påtvinga det statiska. När jag nu känner mig ovanligt fridfull, accepterande och ovärderande av känslotillstånd(poängterar att jag fortfarande känner agression, sorg osv)...så sås ett tvivel i mitt intellekt... Har liksom inte gett upp det sista luftslottet, det om andlig utveklign. Är så van vid att utveklingen följer vissa mönser att jag börjar ifrågasätta om jag stannat upp, om jag lurar migsjälv och kommer störta närsomhellst.

Inte så många klara svar i dessa frågor. Men...tror att vi bör välkommna vår sorg och frustration med öppna armar...det förgör egot och förhindrar att vi klamrar oss fast vid luftslott. Menmen...annars kan du alltid ta en GT och försjunka i lite kulturell masturbation. Skål!

"Människan är något som måste övervinnas,: och därför skall du älska dina dygder - ty du skall gå under genom dem."

"Detta träd står här allena på berget; det har vuxit högt upp över människor och djur. Och om det ville tala skulle det icke hava något som förstod det: så högt har det vuxit. Nu väntar det och väntar - vad väntar det på? Det bygger för nära molnens boning: det väntar väl på den första blixten?"

Trevlig kväll/DD

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PopJimmy
Inlägg: 2569
Blev medlem: 23 nov 2004 07:07

Inläggav PopJimmy » 20 mar 2006 19:10

Jag förstår naturligtvis att detta är symbolik, men att jag förstår mer än dig. Jag vet inte, jag försöker glömam allt jag lärt mig och börja om, testa nya sätt att förhålla sig på. I alla fall, det här med de sex världarna handlar om vad jag skulle kalla komplex psykologisk kausalitet. Naturligtvis har inte Buddhisterna en heltäckande bild, men jag tycker att mycket jag läst verkar röra djupa psykologisk dynamik.

Från en sak till en annan. Det känns skönt att ha dig här Deuce. Du verkar inte fåfäng. Öppen och mottaglig för mina begränsade försök att förstå någonting överhuvudtaget. Jag blir peppad.

Jag vet inte, jag har varit i en djup depression ett tag nu. Men jag ser att det börjar klarna lite. Jag har vågat erkänna för mig själv att mitt beteende är inkonsistent och vågar även erkänna det för andra också. Känns skönt att det finns några som du som inte känner ett behov av att döma ut mig som en knäppgök, även fast mycket av det jag säger faktiskt är förvirrat.

suchanother
Avstängd
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Blev medlem: 14 feb 2004 23:37
Ort: Göteborg

Inläggav suchanother » 20 mar 2006 20:53

Jag förstår dej PopJimmy, har själv varit i samma sits.
När jag läste på gymnasiet så hade jag oerhörda, omänskliga, krav på mej. Allt var väl delvis självförvållat. Jag som invandrare måste hela tiden bevisa att jag duger. Jag måste hela tiden prestera mer än andra för att få samma fina betyg som svenskfödda fick utan att de närmelsevis nådde till mina prestationer. Detta är sant och verkligt och ingen konspirationsteori.
Nå, jag gick ut gymnasiet med toppbetyg trots alla personliga nojor och dylikt.
Efteråt drabbades jag av djup depression och blev inlagd på dårhuset.
Ja, det är svårt att analysera sej själv. Fortfarande idag pendlar jag mellan optimism och pessimism. För egen del är jag rätt nöjd, har inget behov att bevisa mer. Men ibland dyker jag ner i mörkret när ser människors simpla egoism.
Lev väl PopJimmy!


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